This blog will focus on Division IV and V teams in the NCS. When the state regional games commence, the blog will include Division III teams.
Friday, December 5, 2008
Division IV Championship
Justin Siena 28, Salesian 14
A great season has come to an end. We'll work on the all Division IV team this weekend and next week. Then we'll take a look at the Division IV players who will, or may, go on to play at the college level.
18 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Hell of a season Braves way to go through the last three section champs to bring home a title, talk about a tough road.
hmmm. Lets see here. Justin Sienna plays San Rafael, Novato etc. These school have roughly 1500 students. This is the league Justin Sienna is in and they do well. When it comes to playoff time, Justin Sienna goes down and plays against schools who have 500 students (CO-ED). Am I making my point ANY CLEARER??!!
Does being a private school give you an advantage over public schools in the same division?
Should there be a private school bracket and a public school bracket like they have done in other states?
Or maybe another idea that has been tried. Justin Siena (IV), St. Patricks (IV) and St. Vincents (V) type schools dropping down into lower playoffs is why other states have went to a multiplier system for private schools enrollment numbers for playoff classification.
The Illinois High School Association’s multiplier is 1.65 times enrollment for non-boundaried schools. The lowest multiplier I have found was 1.25 times the enrollment.
This is how our private school participants would look using the 1.25 multiplier:
Justin Siena - 609 * 1.25 = 761.25 St. Patricks - 682 * 1.25 = 852.5
Both schools would end up in the Div III playoffs. Justin Siena would have to drop another 50 students to keep from playing Marin Catholic (who is only 14 students away from Div IV) and Navato in the playoffs.
St. Vincents - 399 * 1.25 = 498.7
There would be no reason for St. Vincents to manipulate their enrollment to stay at 399 every year. They would play in the Div IV playoffs where they belong. Or St. Vincents could drop 80 more students to stay where they are and they would still be the biggest school in the Div V playoffs.
Just throwing ideas out there for those of you that feel the current system is unfair and should be changed.
Not really, plenty of schoolsdo the same thing. Obviously no one in this play off bracket is as good as Novato, but Justin is in the division it belongs to. You can hate all you want but Justin isn't even the biggest school in division IV, and I don't har you bitching about those other schools. So let me understand you right, if Justin played in weak legue then it would be ok? You are a slob.
Congrats to the Braves... They are a well coached team and plays with heart.
Just to add my 2 cents worth...
I am presently a coach at a private IV school. Admittedly, I am unfamiliar rulings from other states, but as for our area, we only have a multiplier for unisex schools (all boys or all girls), which is why Cardinal Newman plays up (Div. II) with an enrollment of: 866.
In my experience, not all private schools are equal: Some offer full scholarships, while others only provide financial aide. I know for a fact that there have been several athletes in one schools area, but have opted to go to another school because they offered a full scholarship (not hating, but stating a fact).
If you believe private schools do not have an advantage over public schools in the same division there is a good chance you are either currently enrolled or graduated from a private school.
You wrote in your post: “You can hate all you want but Justin isn't even the biggest school in division IV, and I don't har you bitching about those other schools.”
The biggest school in the NCS Division IV playoffs was St. Patricks at 682 students and the second biggest school was Justin Siena at 609 students. What do they have in common? They are both private schools. I think the person that posted about the multiplier covered St. Patricks, St. Vincents and Justin Siena.
You also wrote to end your post: “You are a slob.”
Did it really take this few posts from an opposing view for you to resort to name calling?
Cardinal Newman could play in the Division III playoffs, but they chose to play in the Division II playoffs. Most of Cardinal Newman’s North Bay League opponents play in the Division II playoffs, so they believe that is where they belong as well. Hint, hint, hint... Justin Siena and St. Patricks.
What are all you idiots talking about, Justin, SPSV or Salesian have no advantage by playing what league they are in or who they play. People knock Salesian for playing weaker teams, but they have proven in the playoffs they can hang with the best of the Class A teams. Yes they lost to Justin my hat goes off to them they played better last night. But for anyone to say that a school has an advantage in Class A is ridiculous. Justin and SPSV play in bigger leagues because NCS drew it up that way. Yes they see better competition and when it comes playoff time teams aren't as good, but they don't do it by choice. Similar to Encinal everybody's hating on them because their finally SUCCESSFUL, why cant we just appreciate good football and successful programs rather than trying to find a excuse for why small schools have success. The only private school that i know recruits is De la and even they have stopped hence the slight decline in their program.
I'm not saying Salesian and Justin Siena have an advantage because of the league they play in.
I'm saying they have an advantage because they have more kids and coaches then the small public schools they end up playing in the division IV playoffs.
Salesian has 54 players on their varsity roster and 11 coaches. How many players do they have in the entire football program?
Justin Siena has 43 players on their varsity roster and 13 coaches. Justin Siena has a JV team and a Frosh. Team. How many players do they have in the entire football program?
Some of these public small schools do not even have 50 players in their entire football programs. It is going to be very difficult for public small schools to compete with these private football powers.
Ok, i get your point but understand they may have 40-50 players but it is the playoffs, many have been called up from JV for the playoffs if they are 15 and probably 40% of the team is Window Dressers ans never play. Yes these teams have 10+ coaches, I know for a fact that over half of Salesians coaches don't get paid, they are alumni who come back and do it because they know the players and for the love of the game.
Ok out of those 51 players id say no more than 30 of them played in every game. A majority of the kids come out because they want to be a part of a team sport. Salesian also does not make any cuts when it comes to roster size.
I see what your saying about all those players not playing, but all those same things apply to the public small schools as well.
If the average public small school roster size is 25 players. How many of those players actually play? 14 or 15. How many of those players are going both ways? Most public small schools have 9 or 10 guys going both ways.
This is proof that two people can have conflicting view points and not resort to calling each other names.
i agree, let me just say it was not always the case at Salesian they had a roster of about 25 kids in 2003 and still made it to the playoffs. Yes, the got destroyed by Justin in the first round. I personally think the growth of the roster size is due to friends deciding to go out and play a varsity sport. They know football doesn't make cuts, and they have a chance to be part of a team and contribute whether it be running the scout team D or running the water out during timeouts. These kids that help make the roster of 51 are simply happy to be on a team and earn their varisty letter.
18 comments:
Hell of a season Braves way to go through the last three section champs to bring home a title, talk about a tough road.
Tough road my butt. Go in the playoffs with your schools you play in your division.
You really don't make any sense, but I believe you are trying to say that Justin isn't a division IV school? Hmm, ok if you say so.
hmmm. Lets see here. Justin Sienna plays San Rafael, Novato etc. These school have roughly 1500 students. This is the league Justin Sienna is in and they do well. When it comes to playoff time, Justin Sienna goes down and plays against schools who have 500 students (CO-ED). Am I making my point ANY CLEARER??!!
Does being a private school give you an advantage over public schools in the same division?
Should there be a private school bracket and a public school bracket like they have done in other states?
Or maybe another idea that has been tried. Justin Siena (IV), St. Patricks (IV) and St. Vincents (V) type schools dropping down into lower playoffs is why other states have went to a multiplier system for private schools enrollment numbers for playoff classification.
The Illinois High School Association’s multiplier is 1.65 times enrollment for non-boundaried schools. The lowest multiplier I have found was 1.25 times the enrollment.
This is how our private school participants would look using the 1.25 multiplier:
Justin Siena - 609 * 1.25 = 761.25
St. Patricks - 682 * 1.25 = 852.5
Both schools would end up in the Div III playoffs. Justin Siena would have to drop another 50 students to keep from playing Marin Catholic (who is only 14 students away from Div IV) and Navato in the playoffs.
St. Vincents - 399 * 1.25 = 498.7
There would be no reason for St. Vincents to manipulate their enrollment to stay at 399 every year. They would play in the Div IV playoffs where they belong. Or St. Vincents could drop 80 more students to stay where they are and they would still be the biggest school in the Div V playoffs.
Just throwing ideas out there for those of you that feel the current system is unfair and should be changed.
Not really, plenty of schoolsdo the same thing. Obviously no one in this play off bracket is as good as Novato, but Justin is in the division it belongs to. You can hate all you want but Justin isn't even the biggest school in division IV, and I don't har you bitching about those other schools. So let me understand you right, if Justin played in weak legue then it would be ok? You are a slob.
The NCS has its own way to determine the enrollment status of private schools. I'm going to find out what they do for sure.
Congrats to the Braves... They are a well coached team and plays with heart.
Just to add my 2 cents worth...
I am presently a coach at a private IV school. Admittedly, I am unfamiliar rulings from other states, but as for our area, we only have a multiplier for unisex schools (all boys or all girls), which is why Cardinal Newman plays up (Div. II) with an enrollment of: 866.
In my experience, not all private schools are equal: Some offer full scholarships, while others only provide financial aide. I know for a fact that there have been several athletes in one schools area, but have opted to go to another school because they offered a full scholarship (not hating, but stating a fact).
Hope this helps...
If you believe private schools do not have an advantage over public schools in the same division there is a good chance you are either currently enrolled or graduated from a private school.
You wrote in your post:
“You can hate all you want but Justin isn't even the biggest school in division IV, and I don't har you bitching about those other schools.”
The biggest school in the NCS Division IV playoffs was St. Patricks at 682 students and the second biggest school was Justin Siena at 609 students. What do they have in common? They are both private schools. I think the person that posted about the multiplier covered St. Patricks, St. Vincents and Justin Siena.
You also wrote to end your post:
“You are a slob.”
Did it really take this few posts from an opposing view for you to resort to name calling?
Stay classy Justin Siena fan, player or parent.
Cardinal Newman could play in the Division III playoffs, but they chose to play in the Division II playoffs. Most of Cardinal Newman’s North Bay League opponents play in the Division II playoffs, so they believe that is where they belong as well. Hint, hint, hint... Justin Siena and St. Patricks.
I’m in support of a separation of Church and State in the playoffs.
I would support a change in the rules to level the playing field as well.
What are all you idiots talking about, Justin, SPSV or Salesian have no advantage by playing what league they are in or who they play. People knock Salesian for playing weaker teams, but they have proven in the playoffs they can hang with the best of the Class A teams. Yes they lost to Justin my hat goes off to them they played better last night. But for anyone to say that a school has an advantage in Class A is ridiculous. Justin and SPSV play in bigger leagues because NCS drew it up that way. Yes they see better competition and when it comes playoff time teams aren't as good, but they don't do it by choice. Similar to Encinal everybody's hating on them because their finally SUCCESSFUL, why cant we just appreciate good football and successful programs rather than trying to find a excuse for why small schools have success. The only private school that i know recruits is De la and even they have stopped hence the slight decline in their program.
What is up with resorting to name calling?
I'm not saying Salesian and Justin Siena have an advantage because of the league they play in.
I'm saying they have an advantage because they have more kids and coaches then the small public schools they end up playing in the division IV playoffs.
Salesian has 54 players on their varsity roster and 11 coaches. How many players do they have in the entire football program?
Justin Siena has 43 players on their varsity roster and 13 coaches. Justin Siena has a JV team and a Frosh. Team. How many players do they have in the entire football program?
Some of these public small schools do not even have 50 players in their entire football programs. It is going to be very difficult for public small schools to compete with these private football powers.
Ok, i get your point but understand they may have 40-50 players but it is the playoffs, many have been called up from JV for the playoffs if they are 15 and probably 40% of the team is Window Dressers ans never play. Yes these teams have 10+ coaches, I know for a fact that over half of Salesians coaches don't get paid, they are alumni who come back and do it because they know the players and for the love of the game.
The roster numbers I used were from before the playoffs. I have no idea how many JV players they brought up to Varsity.
The Salesian roster included 51 seniors and juniors and 3 sophomores.
The Justin Siena roster was made up of all seniors and juniors.
Ok out of those 51 players id say no more than 30 of them played in every game. A majority of the kids come out because they want to be a part of a team sport. Salesian also does not make any cuts when it comes to roster size.
I see what your saying about all those players not playing, but all those same things apply to the public small schools as well.
If the average public small school roster size is 25 players. How many of those players actually play? 14 or 15. How many of those players are going both ways? Most public small schools have 9 or 10 guys going both ways.
This is proof that two people can have conflicting view points and not resort to calling each other names.
Thank you.
i agree, let me just say it was not always the case at Salesian they had a roster of about 25 kids in 2003 and still made it to the playoffs. Yes, the got destroyed by Justin in the first round. I personally think the growth of the roster size is due to friends deciding to go out and play a varsity sport. They know football doesn't make cuts, and they have a chance to be part of a team and contribute whether it be running the scout team D or running the water out during timeouts. These kids that help make the roster of 51 are simply happy to be on a team and earn their varisty letter.
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